Madame Web has hit theaters, and it has been torn apart by audiences and critics alike. With a C+ CinemaScore and the worst opening weekend for a Spider-Man-related project at the box office, this attempt to expand Sony’s Spider-Man Cinematic Universe was dead on arrival. Based on the reaction to the trailers and even the film’s press tour, it appeared that the movie was dead even before it hit theaters.
An interesting narrative that popped up ahead of the film’s release was that it seemed the stars might have been tricked into the film. Not that anyone held their careers hostage and forced them to do the movie, or like a cartoon character making them think they were walking onto the set of a heavy drama and then being dupped into being a superhero movie, but a general confusion over what Madame Web was exactly. Multiple quotes from the stars leading into the film’s premiere suggest that they might have thought they were joining a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie without realizing the complicated legal web that separates the MCU from Sony’s Spider-Man films.
Madame Web
1/5
- Release Date
- February 14, 2024
- Runtime
- 1hr 57min
- Studio
- Columbia Pictures, Marvel Entertainment, Sony Pictures Entertainment (SPE)
Quotes From Dakota Johnson
On February 7, 2024, Dakota Johnson did an interview with L’Officiel USA. In it, she mentioned how being offered the role of Madame Web, Elizabeth Olsen, who stars in the MCU as Wanda Maximoff, aka The Scarlet Witch, helped ease her fears of joining a big-budget superhero movie. She said
“When I got the
Madame Web
role, I ran into Lizzie Olsen in the hotel lobby and spoke to her about it for a bit, and that was helpful. She said she had a great time and… seemed very relaxed about it, so that was comforting,”
Now, obviously, there is a lot to dig into here. The first is that many people just assume that because it was an MCU star telling Dakota Johnson to take Madame Web or that Johnson sought out advice from an MCU star, it was because she assumed that the movie would be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This isn’t the first time this has come up. In the lead-up to Morbius, star Matt Smith revealed that he spoke to his former Doctor Who co-star Karen Gillian about taking the part. Gillian plays Nebula in the Guardians of the Galaxy films as well as both Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. Smith told Digital Spy back in 2022
“I phoned Karen and said, ‘What’s it like? Have you had a nice time?’ and she’s like, ‘Yeah, go for it, do it’. So I did. Good old Kaz. I mean, she’s a seasoned pro, she’s made about 9 of them,” he recalled.
In a now-deleted post on her Instagram, when Johnson joined Madame Web, she had tagged Marvel Studios in the post. This, along with these comments, made many people assume that Johnson joined the cast under the assumption that she would be part of the MCU and be able to crossover with other films. This theory holds little water when it becomes clear that in other interviews, Johnson admits to having seen very few Marvel movies and can’t even name the three Tom Holland Spider-Man movies. She didn’t sign up to Madame Web because she wanted to crossover with Ant-Man or Thor. As Richard Newby put it in his piece on Madame Web in The Hollywood Reporter, “absurd conclusion that a 34-year actress who has spent her life in the industry was tricked into signing a contract to make a movie she didn’t want to make, after reading the script and watermarked contract.”
Sydney Sweeney
If the Dakota Johnson quotes weren’t enough, comments regarding Sydney Sweeney furthered the narrative that the stars might have been deceived into what the movie was exactly. Entertainment Tonight asked Sweeney, who plays the role of Julia Cornwall, aka Spider-Woman, about what the most exciting aspect of joining the MCU was to which Sweeney responded:
“That I can’t talk about it. It’s so hard because I talk so much … It was amazing, It was incredible, I’m so excited … I’m just really honoured to be a part of this.”
Many took this to believe Sweeney thought she was part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and was waiting on a call for the next project. Yet notably, it was not Sweeney who mentioned the MCU; it was the interviewer. While some might say Sweeney did not correct her, it was not Sweeney who was saying that she was part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe but instead a mistake by the reporter. This opens the discussion about how even some people who cover the industry use MCU as a catch-all term for all Marvel-related movies instead of a specific brand, the same way that people say Kleenex to mean all tissues instead of a specific brand name.
Unlike Johnson, who does not seem to really care or know much about the Marvel Comics, Sweeney does seem to be a fan. She even fought to have her character hanging upside down, like in the comics, which she saw as a vital part of the character. While Sweeney likely signed on to Madame Web because she was excited to be in a superhero movie, it is unlikely that she (or her agents did not know) at least that it was not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Sony certainly might have made promises they could not keep, as it has been made abundantly clear by inserting a scene of Venom being transported into the MCU at the end of Venom: Let There Be Carnage in a move that Spider-Man: No Way Home had to immediately undo. Sony and Marvel Studios might work together on Spider-Man movies, but they have a complicated relationship that many average moviegoers might not know.
The Complicated Web of Spider-Man
There is a good chance that general audiences, and maybe even some actors in Hollywood, think that Madame Web and other Marvel-related projects like Venom, Morbius, and the upcoming Kraven the Hunter are part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. After all, they have the name Marvel on them in the trailers, and they are connected to Spider-Man, who is part of the MCU. Yet there is a clear distinction between the two, as Sony’s films make up their own universe of characters, and Marvel has no creative involvement in them.
Spider-Man is the premiere Marvel character, but for years, he was not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe due to Sony Pictures having the film rights. By 2014, as the MCU was reaching new heights following The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and Guardians of the Galaxy, the former box office heavy-weight franchise of Spider-Man suffered an embarrassing defeat as The Amazing Spider-Man 2 became the lowest-grossing film in the franchise up to that point. After a lot of behind-the-scenes discussions (and at one point, a Sony executive throwing a sandwich at Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige), a deal was struck to incorporate Spider-Man into the MCU.
A lot of the complicated details of the contract between Sony and Marvel can be read here, but the short version is that Marvel Studios produced the Spider-Man-led movies and had creative control while Sony put up the cash and made most of the profits. The deal also allowed Spider-Man to appear in MCU team-up movies, and Sony could use MCU characters in their Spider-Man movies. The contract was for five film appearances, which resulted in Captain America: Civil War, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Avengers: Infinity War, Avengers: Endgame, and Spider-Man: Far From Home.
It worked as it helped the Spider-Man franchise rebound and put the brand back in strong hands. Sony had originally planned to make their own cinematic universe based around Spider-Man characters to spin off from The Amazing Spider-Man but halted plans. Then, after Spider-Man was successfully revived as a franchise, they moved forward with Venom. This is where complications with Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures began. Sony wanted the MCU brand to help elevate their projects, but Marvel did not want Sony’s films possibly hurting their track record. Venom was originally supposed to feature a cameo by Tom Holland, but those plans were vetoed.
Marvel Studios fears that the poorly received Sony films damaging their own brand might be coming true. Madame Web now comes after the box office bomb of The Marvels and the critical disappointment of Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania and Secret Invasion. While a hardcore fan or someone in the know on the film industry might know this is not Marvel Studios, to an average moviegoer, they see another disappointing Marvel release.
How Sony Actually Might Have Tricked Them
On February 13, 2024, one day before Madame Web opened in theaters, Dakota Johnson told The Wrap that much had changed about Madame Web from when she first signed on to the final film. She said
“There were drastic changes and I can’t even tell you what they were.”
Now, obviously, movies change a lot from their initial script to when they begin filming and even in post-production. Film is a fluid art form. Yet this is noteworthy in that for anyone who watches the finished film; it is very clear that Madame Web underwent more than the normal amount of behind-the-scenes changes. The movie appears to be cut to bits, and the movie features a lot of heavy (and poorly dubbed) ADR, suggesting that the movie they shot underwent major changes in post-production and with reshoots.
The film establishes that Madame Web can project herself across time and space, maybe suggesting that Sony Pictures had hopped to use Madame Web as a way to further connect all of their Spider-Man projects. Not just their shared universe of Venom and Morbius but also the past Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies and also the MCU. Sony Pictures might keep things vague to the stars and even the creatives involved, saying that this would connect them to the MCU.
Yet if the MCU doesn’t acknowledge it, and based on the box office for Madame Web, Sony Pictures won’t be acknowledging it anytime soon, it appears that many of the stars of Madame Web were wasted on a movie that was not worth their talents.
